Forex Freedom Rocks scam ? Lets discuss this program.

[marsh56]

J, you are absolutely correct about trading on your own vs. relying on a system. I have never questioned that.

If FR were to disappear tomorrow, I can still hedge trade because I have learned how thanks to FR's system and also FFS's system. I don't need their "calculators" because I can now do the calculations myself.

None of it is rocket science.

If others choose to follow them blindly, assuming they will always be around, that is no different than the person who buys a trading ebook and has others do his thinking and his trading for him instead of applying his new found knowledge himself.

For you to say hedge trading is not "trading" is your opinion. I think the very large banks that trade this way would disagree with you! Drawdowns are a natural part of the process since you can't have it both ways. Just because YOU don't like them does not take away from the strategy.

If you analyze it correctly, stop losses do not make any sense with hedge trading. I understand it's counter intuitive to you but that does not make it wrong!

Since my only account that margined was a demo account with the 4 pair that was way over leveraged, I am not concerned about your "what if" scenario regarding the market plunging overnight. Anything could happen but the worst case scenario is not likely.

Mark

[marsh56]

J, I sent you emails from this forum. In any case you still haven't pointed me to your course so I guess I'll have to search the forum!

BTW, I still don't see the usual toolbars to reply here and no one has explained why. Oh, well. Onward and upward.

Mark

[Traderj]

Originally Posted by marsh56

I'll take your word on the back testing but it still cannot predict the future. My point is that hedging will work in ANY kind of market, i.e. bull or bear or sideways. Hence the term "hedge".

Mark

Agreed 100% was not implying it could... but you see what back testing does is shows people where a system has broken down in the past. So if its broken in the past it will warn that when whatever set of circumstances come up that broke appear again it will likely break...

The real value of back testing has been debated for years by traders and I doubt it will end any time soon. I have never been a huge fan of it.. at least not for the purpose of predicting profits..

I like back testing for one simple reason, if a system can't work long term on back testing then it's not worth my time to use it in real time... I have never back tested FR nor will I.

I was simply commenting on the incorrect assumption some people that due to it's nature it can't be back tested.

[Traderj]

Originally Posted by marsh56

J, you are absolutely correct about trading on your own vs. relying on a system. I have never questioned that.

Not implying you were.

If FR were to disappear tomorrow, I can still hedge trade because I have learned how thanks to FR's system and also FFS's system. I don't need their "calculators" because I can now do the calculations myself.

I am VERY sure you are one of the small small minority of people that can say that. I am sure you would agree. The whole point to FR is that they are trying to appeal to people that normally wouldn't be involved in the markets, because they are so complicated and with FR as they say in all their marketing, no charts to learn no technical indicators no complicated theory etc... so MOST people that use not only don't know how to do the calculations they don't care to.. and they WOULD be screwed if the doors closed tomorrow..

I'm glad to hear that would not adversely affect you.

If others choose to follow them blindly, assuming they will always be around, that is no different than the person who buys a trading ebook and has others do his thinking and his trading for him instead of applying his new found knowledge himself.

Couldn't agree more... stupid stupid stupid.. the old give a man a fish saying comes to mind.

For you to say hedge trading is not "trading" is your opinion. I think the very large banks that trade this way would disagree with you! Drawdowns are a natural part of the process since you can't have it both ways. Just because YOU don't like them does not take away from the strategy.

You've actually thrown this comment out a few times and I'm wondering where you get it from? Can you please site some sources that make you believe that Banks of any size are employing the same methods as FR?

I was not making a judgment you sound a little put out here. I don't care about FR being trading or not, of course its not in MY opinion.... but I am quite sure that if you talk to long term traders most would agree it's not.. just buying something and let it sit there with no defined exit point or profit target is NOT trading.. that doesn't mean it can't work or it's not a valid method.. there are plenty of things that are profitable that don't employ trading as I think of the word... again not an insult simply a comment.

If you analyze it correctly, stop losses do not make any sense with hedge trading. I understand it's counter intuitive to you but that does not make it wrong!

Again you're losing me... I never said you should use a stop loss with FR or hedging?? I must have missed something.

I am not concerned about your "what if" scenario regarding the market plunging overnight. Anything could happen but the worst case scenario is not likely.

I like to think of a very good old saying that I have posted right beside my trading rig and it is the first thing I see every morning when I login to my platform..

Plan for the worst and hope for the best...

I think it's clear that MOST FR "traders" aren't planning for anything but they are hoping... just because some is "not likely" does not mean it won't happen. Much like the other times in history when the markets had their meltdowns.

So YOU are comfy with risking your money like that, all the more power to you I would not try to impose MY views or opinions on your personal beliefs.

I was merely explaining why FR does NOT work for me and my lifestyle.

You never did answer btw, at least not that I saw.. is FR your living? Do you earn your living by trading with FR or is it just mad money for you? I think that also makes a huge difference. You might NOT THINK it does... but that's because you're not in that boat.

Think of it this way, if ALL the money you had every penny you possessed was tied up on the FR system and you were counting on XX% every month to sustain your life would you still be "ok" with those drawdowns? The point is unless you are in that position you CAN'T know, you can assume or believe or any other term, but you can't know until you are in that situation...

[Traderj]

Originally Posted by marsh56

J, I sent you emails from this forum. In any case you still haven't pointed me to your course so I guess I'll have to search the forum!

BTW, I still don't see the usual toolbars to reply here and no one has explained why. Oh, well. Onward and upward.

Mark

Well I don't want to post links in this forum. But if you send me an email at webmaster@daytradingforincome.com I think you'll find your answer

:-)

[marsh56]

J, thanks for all the responses. As always, they are clearly thought out and we simply have differing views on FR vs. every day trading.

To answer a question: yes, I am currently doing FR "for a living" and, yes, I do accept the drawdowns when they occur because I understand they are a natural part of hedging. Recently, I have added a demo account using the Forex For Smarties method, a variation of FR.

This strategy actually allows for daily "trading" where all my trades are winners. How's that for a strategy? So far, in just over a week, I have captured over $850 in locked in profits in addition to interest (based on a $10k account, 400:1 with a 20% margin, EUR against CHF). This represents dozens of trades that are executed automatically on my platform (has a take profit option). As each one executes, I manually re-enter it and do this over and over until I re-allocate. When my equity reaches my % goal, I will remove those profits plus any "bonus" from interest and the hedge.

Then I re-enter the market and start all over again, this time with different positions determined by the FFS software.

Regarding sources for my statement about major banks using hedging: first, it is generally well known in Forex circles and I will attempt to look for direct sources.

Second, it is quoted both by Mark V. and John Gariano of FR. John is a broker and VP of FR. In fact, it has been said that certain banks talk to FR about their program from time to time. Even though I cannot independently verify the information, I do believe it's true. Why? Because it makes sense. BTW, I did not imply that any banks currently follow FR's strategy. Instead, I implied that they use hedging to make money. Happens all the time in Warren Buffet land, so why not in Forex!

To address stop losses, as I recall you believe it's not wise not to have stop losses. Perhaps you mean that in the context of "regular" trading, in which case you are, of course, correct. With FR, you can simply close all positions at any time and wait out any drawdowns if you wish. It is an option but not necessary.

The more I study, test and do FR--and now FFS--the more I see the sheer genius and simplicity of the approach. The idea of hedging is nothing new but their strategies clearly introduce a new paradigm to trading Forex. Where else can you trade at 400:1 leverage (most brokers don't allow it) and control so much currency with so little money?

In fact, this leverage allows the "little guy" an advantage for a change because most large investors ($1M or more) are not allowed 400:1 because the numbers get too large.

I'll end by saying that my next door neighbor has been trading managed Forex accounts for 5+ years. When he looked at FR and my accounts, he said "looks good, makes sense, keep doing it". That's good enough for me!

Mark

[Traderj]

Originally Posted by marsh56

J, thanks for all the responses. As always, they are clearly thought out and we simply have differing views on FR vs. every day trading.

Thanks you as well, and there is nothing wrong with us agreeing to disagree on some of the issues.

I have said over and over again I have nothing against FR or it's methods, but I do with a segment of people that promote it in a un-ethical way.

I have also stated it's NOT for me. I have tried the demo now twice and it just doesn't sit well with me. Everybody is different and if I've learned anything from my years of trading it's that is you don't have "belief" in whatever method you are trying to trade you will NEVER be successful with it. In this case FR or FFS just does not sit well in my mental makeup...

You can check with any long term trader and Mark V as well if he is in fact a trader and he will agree you trade your belief system.. that is number one.

So this issue is dead as far as I"m concerned... I wish you the best of luck with it.. as I do anyone involved in the markets...

J

[FreedomNotts]

Hey all. How are those Freedomrocks' "set it and forget it-zero guesswork investing" accounts doing the past 2 weeks? I'm sure everyone is up 40%, right? And everyone's still just going to bed at night with the account running and no stops. Any "Zero-Guessworkers" out there not knowing what to guess on with their accounts in this current market?

Anyone?

I had a JPY GBP CHF demo account going and a CHF and GBP demo account going and they got absolutely hammered in 3-5 days.

Sorry, couldn't resist showing up again. Gonna be a tough few months, or rest of the year, for Freedomrocks.

[arton]

Hello Guys,

I read all the Post in this thread and found it very interesting and informational. Thank you!

There is long time, that nobody has post over here!

I am interested in joining FR or some system that works good with Forex !

How is your experience until now with FR?

marsh56, are you still trading successful? How about FFS ?

I am looking for a Mentor to join under with, and will appriciate for any inputs.

you can contact me here, PM or email lazogusho[at]hotmail[dot]com ;

Looking forward ...

[atmortakert]

How i may contact admin this site? I have a question.
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